Do older tube trains contain Asbestos?

The original (1940) stock on the W&C did contain asbestos. This is why only one car was preserved. IIRC some private individuals sought to obtain some of the cars but it would have been very expensive to remove the asbestos. In other stock there was some asbestos that has to be removed such as the preserved 'Q' stock and this is one of the reasons why the 'standard' T/S restoration is delayed until sufficient funds are available for such work to be done.

Asbestos was so widely used in the 60s and 70s that I would be very surprised if the older stocks did not contain it in some form or other. I have no idea if they currently contain any asbestos but sometimes these things are best left alone! Heat resistant cable was often asbestos covered, ceramic fuse holders often had asbestos pads in them, gaskets can contain it... and the list goes on and on. One thing that is certain is that any remaining asbestos would not be left in a way that it poses a hazard to the public!

Slightly O/T, but this reminds me of an asbestos removal job that was done at work. It was decided that the ceramic fuse holders in an remote and obscure fuseboard contained asbestos arc pads which could pose a hazard if somebody had to change a fuse.

It took the electricians a good hour to identify where the board was fed from and isolate it (obviously having to open the board and check it was dead). Then comes the asbestos contractor who seals the room, removes the offending part, cleans out fuse board and does an air check. ...job done! Only slight issue is that the board wasn't used as it had no circuits connected to it!

Asbestos was used for most car and lorry brake and clutch pads so it is not surprising that it was used in railway brakes.

I think that some of the Central Line stock carried more than the average amount of asbestos i.e. more than brake shoes and electrical cable or fittings. I understand that behind the seats the cars were lined with asbestos sheet.

Asbestos was used throughout London Underground and although there may be none in extant rolling stock there is still plenty to be found throughout the system. Where it is found and reported it is usually sealed and monitored where it is unlikely to be disturbed, elsewhere it is removed. LUL has specialist units to deal with the recording, sealing and/or removal and monitoring of asbestos. Most of the places that I worked contained asbestos in one form or another, one has to remember that it was used in all manner of things and in several forms. Perhaps the most well known are flat sheet found in many trackside relay cases and relay rooms, corrugated sheet used in roofing, brake linings (white or brown), tunnel linings (blue), tunnel anti noise baffles (white), cable troughing (white), floor and wall tiles, pipe lagging, signal cable sheathing mostly on the Victoria line but also on the Picc west end from Acton Town, stage 1 Jubilee line and at various sites on most tube lines for such things as misc comms, sumps and pumps. Asbestos cabling was still being installed as late as the 1980s. Of course such things as fire blankets were originally made predominantly of woven asbestos and wall plugs (for screws) were asbestos fibre, toaster elements were wound on asbestos pads and it was always to be found in LT/LU messrooms and canteens in one form or another as well as office complexes and equipment rooms.

Compared to 30 years ago the risk from asbestos is much reduced but no-one can say that it has been eliminated and it won't be for decades to come. Having said that I expect that most customers are far more at risk from the illegal and very dangerous fly tipping of asbestos that is a daily event up and down the country!

Cravens were notorious for using needlessly high amounts of asbestos, I believe that some A Stock had to be given special treatment at Vic Berry's.

Probably the 1962 stock, and the 1960 stock.

From my motorcycling activities,I know that asbestos was phased out of (new) brake pads in the early 90s,though there would have been reserve stocks for some years after.Asbestos in gaskets lasted a while longer,but I think now has been replaced.

Was there not a Union campaign in the 70s to clean up tunnel-dust on the Tube? Due to its asbestos content? I certainly remember the tunnels in the Golders Green area being closed to remove blue asbestos sound-proofing....

Asbestos is found all over the place,and in the most unlikely places....a friend was advised to leave the Artex ceiling of his stairway at home well alone,as the textured finish was achieved using asbestos....

The problem is,asbestos is a miracle material...lightweight,strong,fire-resistant,versatile and not too expensive....only problem is,it causes mesothelioma....

There is asbestos all over the system. The only bits in trains that I would worry about significantly would that in brake blocks (which has been pahsed out many years ago). As people siad, asbestos is brilliant as lightweight fireproof insulator - which is ideal for the tube network. Apart from killing people.

effectively, it is pretty much "safe" if not disturbed - the majority (if not all) of the asbestosis cases relate to people who worked in the inudstry or were otherwise exposed to lots of unsealed asbestos. However, there is now an incredibly tight (and well-understood) set of rules for dealing with it, which are generally followed tightly.

I wouldn't say there is *no* risk, but I should imagine more people have been killed by pretty much every other cause than asbestos exposure as a passenger.

I have *never* heard this story about carbon fibre, and don't really see any reason for it to be the case.

Tunnel dust particularly on the Northern line was full of asbestos dust. The anti noise baffles at the sides of the tunnels (an attempt to quieten axle noise in the tube cars) were made of untreated asbestos sheet. We trampled it to dust when running in new cables in the late 1970s resignalling.

I worked in the affected tunnels at Golders Green immediately prior to the specialist removal of the blue asbestos and continued to work in the adjacent tunnel which was signalled for bidirectional working to keep a service running. I was one of few volunteers, all those who refused to work in the area were put onto day work at the time. In filth terms all the deep tube lines were very filthy back then, we used to wear rags under our overalls, tape up our sleeves etc to keep dust out but it used to penetrate all the way through to the skin, the Bakerloo was particularly filthy as I recall but filth was part of the job, we cleaned up as best we could in the fire buckets which we lined up along the platform and filled with hot water. By the time the last man reached the last of the row of buckets he was probably filthier after a quick wash than before it! Most of us took our dust home as we had to wash our own overalls in those days, mine were often covered in the green or white painted dusty asbestos fibres that had become detached from the sheathing during cable running.

The union did take action over asbestos but the agreement on new works was that we had to use up existing stocks of cable and there were thousands of metres of asbestos braid sheathed signal cables in the Neasden cable stores which took years to exhaust.

I would remind you to read the previous postings in the thread before asking questions that have already been answered.

I know of at least 1 widow who blames exposure to asbestos in brake blocks for the death of her husband and a number of his colleagues who spent most of their lives maintaining tube trains, most were also heavy smokers,so who knows.

I know there have been a number of reports done by LUL on the various nasties that exist in the trains , as far as I recall D stock and later have been asbestos free since they were built , the 72's and 73's had limited amounts that has either been removed long ago. There were some suspicions that some items may have sneaked through as the trains were built using components reclaimed from older stocks (heating contactors, arc chutes etc.) and I recall something about duralumin sandwich panels but I think it was eventually found that all of these were already OK as well.

When I visited Ferodo's factory in the mid 90's they had completely stopped making asbestos products for railways.

Of the other nasties, only train maintainers and people doing refurbishment can be exposed , these are things like Mercury , PCBs, lead paints etc.

As for the tube as a whole, LUL used to have a unit called RACU (Rail Asbestos Control Unit) who you used to have to call if you suspected something was asbestos , also I believe they went round and put notices on a load of the white Asbestos telling you to call them if it needed to be removed. I vaguely recall them coming to Ealing Common Depot in 93 to deal with some pipe lagging that was disturbed during the refurbishment.

Not quite true, signal and comms maintenance staff were and still are exposed to some nasties. I think the mercury and PCBs have all gone from trackside now, i.e. open mercury dashpots in current online (COL) relays and the nastier oils found in electrical equipment such as condensers and transformers but there are still plenty of hazards especially in older equipment and older locations, LT did a nice line in chemical based products from the old scientific section which we used to use often and then there were the solders and fluxes that gave off potentially harmful fumes in confined areas etc. I think the potentially lethal halon fire extinguishing systems are all gone now replaced with water fog systems.



AFAIAA this unit still exists and under devolvement of engineering, Tube Lines and Metronet also had specialist Asbestos Units which made working in some places very difficult with one, two or more layers of control to negotiate before undertaking work, Earls Court control room and associated offices and equipment rooms being a case in point where all three had to be involved.

Does the Central line RAT have asbestos in the places i have heard mentioned?

The central line sandites had their asbestos removed last year on their overhaul. Think it was mostly the cement type sheets of asbestos