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Post by plasmid on Jul 13, 2011 0:05:13 GMT
So they blame TFL because the doors were too sensitive and stopped the trains from leaving. TFL went and made adjustments to the doors and they are offended because the train moved with the doors open...Gosh there just isn't pleasing anyone!
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jul 13, 2011 5:32:16 GMT
So they blame TFL because the doors were too sensitive and stopped the trains from leaving. TFL went and made adjustments to the doors and they are offended because the train moved with the doors open...Gosh there just isn't pleasing anyone! That's a wee bit harsh. Door/traction interlocks (pilot light indicated) have been around for ages - ever since air-operated doors came in. Take away the TfL b*llshit excuses by their spokeswoman, and you are left with a major, serious failure of THE fundamental fail-safe passenger protection system. No blame, no excuses by TfL needed: sensitive edges or not, this wrong-side failure should have been impossible, like it always has been till now. I'm a bit surprised some H&S bod hasn't demanded the withdrawal of all the Vic stock until the fault had been found and corrected - it's happened for less before in the transport industry.
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Post by 21146 on Jul 13, 2011 16:55:21 GMT
Wrong-side failure or incorrect use of cut-out switch(es)?
Investigations are continuing but I think you'll note the 09TS are still in service.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jul 13, 2011 17:04:17 GMT
Do the 09 stock have CSDE?
I'm suprised this happened! Was there a door fault light to indicate to the driver?
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Post by seaeagle on Jul 13, 2011 18:08:56 GMT
Do the 09 stock have CSDE? I'm suprised this happened! Was there a door fault light to indicate to the driver? 09 stock does have CSDE. The only light to do with the doors that the driver has is the door closed visual (pilot light).
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 13, 2011 19:23:17 GMT
Do the 09 stock have CSDE? I'm suprised this happened! Was there a door fault light to indicate to the driver? But CSDE is for correct side enabling of door opening and nothing to do with door closing!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 19:45:31 GMT
Any news regarding this?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 23:15:15 GMT
Yes, but if the train is still above a certain speed, the doors stop opening until the train becomes stationary. Door open is enabled when the train speed is below 6km/h and falling and the train is within the CSDE area (stop point +/- 2.5m). So superteacher is right that they can open when the train is moving slightly if the operator is quick on the button.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jul 14, 2011 4:55:06 GMT
Wrong-side failure or incorrect use of cut-out switch(es)? Wasn't it a centre car where the doors failed? If so there would have been no cutout switch. Yes - of course - but I was thinking back to the (over)reaction to the 92ts motors falling off. Then the whole fleet was removed, paralysing the Central. I was merely musing that the risk to passengers is greater in this case and H&S has become far more interfering in the intervening time. Perhaps some common sense has prevailed - or not (compare the aircraft industry).
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Post by 21146 on Jul 14, 2011 11:41:04 GMT
I was referring to Door Interlock and Sensitive Edge cut-out switches, not End-Door cut-outs; although this thread is dangerously close to speculation on current matters which, I believe, is not usually welcomed on the site.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 12:22:22 GMT
So they blame TFL because the doors were too sensitive and stopped the trains from leaving. TFL went and made adjustments to the doors and they are offended because the train moved with the doors open...Gosh there just isn't pleasing anyone! That's a wee bit harsh. Door/traction interlocks (pilot light indicated) have been around for ages - ever since air-operated doors came in. Take away the TfL b*llshit excuses by their spokeswoman, and you are left with a major, serious failure of THE fundamental fail-safe passenger protection system. No blame, no excuses by TfL needed: sensitive edges or not, this wrong-side failure should have been impossible, like it always has been till now. In an attempt to clear up any speculation: 1. There was not a failure of the fail-safe passenger protection system. 2. Trains have a door interlock cut out function, which, if incorrectly used, can always result in a train moving with its doors open (it is a function that is intended to get a train moving again following the failure of the door interlock circuit - there was no such failure here). These are both facts, and were known quickly after the incident - read into them what you will, I won't go into any further details on this public board.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 14:27:48 GMT
Yes, but if the train is still above a certain speed, the doors stop opening until the train becomes stationary. Door open is enabled when the train speed is below 6km/h and falling and the train is within the CSDE area (stop point +/- 2.5m). So superteacher is right that they can open when the train is moving slightly if the operator is quick on the button. My post probably wasn't clear enough - what I had meant was, I had previously noticed that even if the operator tries to open the doors before the train has come to a complete stop, the doors open at the normal speed for no more than a few inches, at which point they stop and then very slowly slide the rest of the way open. Presumably this is some sort of safety feature...?
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 14, 2011 16:59:18 GMT
.... Just shows that the Victoria Line was built on the cheap - stations environs cut back etc. .... I think that is a silly remark! Don't forget that it was designed more than 50 years ago when people were less used to the type of mollycoddling than they seem to expect today. It was way ahead of its time in so many respects and was certainly not built on the cheap by any means. Systems that may seem run of the mill everyday safety items now were not even dreamt of all those years ago. It is a shame that the other deep level lines were not upgraded to the same standard years ago instead of being run down through decades of under investment and poor management.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jul 14, 2011 22:19:31 GMT
Thanks for adding some facts. As you say, we on this forum do not allow discussion where any formal investigation has been announced, so since you are implying one has been set up I'll lock the thread untils any report has been made public.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 5, 2011 11:52:54 GMT
This thread remains locked, however I have been made aware via ChrisM that the RAIB are investigating this incident: www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/110711_warren_street.cfmJust reading their outline of events goes to prove the level of misinformation that gets put out as fact surrounding such serious incidents. Hopefully members can appreciate why we prefer to lock threads early in such cases now!!
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