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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 11:24:38 GMT
You'd hope that they would allow some common sense regarding mobile phones. It is understandable and sensible that mobiles are banned in the cab. But, humans are humans... I have occasionally seen drivers holding a phone or looking down at one when the train pulls in. I blame ATO! It must get boring sitting there between stations and not driving the train... I would imagine there would be serious consequences for any driver seen using a phone whilst the train is in motion, what happens if whilst the driver is looking at his/her phone somebody jumps or falls off the platform? |
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 11, 2011 12:33:19 GMT
Is it possible to suspend the line only in tunnels... Above ground, could contact not be established via mobile phone in an emergency? OMG - what a can of worms that is! Mobys have to be switched off while in the cab. It's the rules. " Brrr Brrr.............Brrr Brrr - "Bollox Line Control"................." This is the driver of train zero six-uh zero, I've been standing at signal Charlie Oscar Charlie Kilo four-uh, two-uh, nine-uh for over ten minutes and I haven't been able to get in contact with anyone as the radio has gone down"..............."Driver, are you using a mobile phone?"........................."Yes"........................"You're fired"........... We are told to contact whoever in an emergency by moby if necessary. Even asking to use a punter's moby ( ugh, it could stink of curry or puke ) if we don't have one of our own.............Talk about hip-hop-ocrasee..........or having a piece of cake and eating it.......... I've been in the cab with drivers using mobiles to call control but I've only seen it happen when stationary and used during a failure when all the normal channels are busy. More often than not I would be en route to the failure that was causing all the congestion on the airwaves! As in all things common sense dictates that using a mobile on the move is a no-no. |
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Post by 21146 on Feb 11, 2011 12:39:19 GMT
OMG - what a can of worms that is! Mobys have to be switched off while in the cab. It's the rules. " Brrr Brrr.............Brrr Brrr - "Bollox Line Control"................." This is the driver of train zero six-uh zero, I've been standing at signal Charlie Oscar Charlie Kilo four-uh, two-uh, nine-uh for over ten minutes and I haven't been able to get in contact with anyone as the radio has gone down"..............."Driver, are you using a mobile phone?"........................."Yes"........................"You're fired"........... We are told to contact whoever in an emergency by moby if necessary. Even asking to use a punter's moby ( ugh, it could stink of curry or puke ) if we don't have one of our own.............Talk about hip-hop-ocrasee..........or having a piece of cake and eating it.......... I've been in the cab with drivers using mobiles to call control but I've only seen it happen when stationary and used during a failure when all the normal channels are busy. More often than not I would be en route to the failure that was causing all the congestion on the airwaves! As in all things common sense dictates that using a mobile on the move is a no-no. In 2011, possession of a mobile phone whilst on duty is not an offence (as, say, alcohol would be). However it's the USE of one whilst in the cab - even if stationary - which is the issue. I believe the BTP have even requested details from a network provider after incidents just to ensure the driver wasn't using his phone at the time of an event. Of course, a Connect radio handset, which sends/receives text and is linked to the LU auto telephone system as well as the line controllers radio, is affectively a big 1990s mobile phone in all but name but that is apparently OK. |
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Post by 21146 on Feb 11, 2011 12:42:27 GMT
I also wonder if the T/OPs who had to use mobiles from their admittedly stationary trains on 7/7 were subsequently sacked? Think not, but then that's the nature of such catastrophic events.
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Post by james66526 on Feb 11, 2011 15:45:34 GMT
Not just the nature of the event. We're allowed to use them in an emergency.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 11, 2011 16:51:06 GMT
Which will be one reason why possession of them is not an offence, I presume.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 18:04:56 GMT
But, getting back to the original thread, station staff cuts would impact on the service in a communications failure, then? If there are no staff on the station, how can the message get to the driver that the service is suspended.... Hold the station starter if possible at danger. That way the driver won't be going anywhere. |
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Post by Colin D on Feb 11, 2011 20:19:53 GMT
But, getting back to the original thread, station staff cuts would impact on the service in a communications failure, then? If there are no staff on the station, how can the message get to the driver that the service is suspended.... Hold the station starter if possible at danger. That way the driver won't be going anywhere. With vast majority of station starters being automatic that wouldn't work very well, unless controllers can override automatic signals, is that possible? One more question, are T/ops allowed to pass a signal under the rule if they cannot communicate with the line controller? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 20:54:25 GMT
If the signal can be held at danger, it's technically a semi-auto and cannot be passed under rule. If it's a true auto, then the stop and proceed rule applies.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 21:20:56 GMT
If the signal can be held at danger, it's technically a semi-auto and cannot be passed under rule. If it's a true auto, then the stop and proceed rule applies. On the Central trains can also be held at Block Marker Boards using an in cab visual. |
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Post by Chris M on Feb 11, 2011 21:50:22 GMT
If the signal can be held at danger, it's technically a semi-auto and cannot be passed under rule. If it's a true auto, then the stop and proceed rule applies. On the Central trains can also be held at Block Marker Boards using an in cab visual. How is this set? If it relies on the same control-train communication system as the radios then it's not going to be much use in this scenario. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 21:57:23 GMT
On the Central trains can also be held at Block Marker Boards using an in cab visual. How is this set? If it relies on the same control-train communication system as the radios then it's not going to be much use in this scenario. Via the signalling system. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 11, 2011 23:49:03 GMT
If the signal can be held at danger, it's technically a semi-auto and cannot be passed under rule. If it's a true auto, then the stop and proceed rule applies. Can't all signals be put to danger by a panic button in an emergency? From accounts of the Ladbroke Grove disaster I understand it's possible on NR (although in that case the signallers weren't able to do it in time to makde a difference) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 18:01:04 GMT
Not the whole line but its happened again:
Suspended between Holborn and White City due to a signalling systems failure in the Marble Arch area. Minor delays are occurring on the rest of the line.
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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 14, 2011 22:20:32 GMT
Not the whole line but its happened again: Suspended between Holborn and White City due to a signalling systems failure in the Marble Arch area. Minor delays are occurring on the rest of the line. The algorithms and frequencies were throwing wobblies at each other twixt Oxo and Queensway in both directions for the best part of an hour in the evening peak. All rather strange the way it panned out. First a signalling failure at Marble and then loss of local CCTV, and then loss of the algorithms n frequencies served up on the finest bone china firmware twixt Oxo and Queensway both roads. It was wandering, it was nomadic, it was...............*The Ghost In The Machine*...........I reckon that if the CCTV equipment was recording then subsequent analysis will reveal.............A spectral buskin' bagpiper sporting a naff kilt and charred sporran getting his revenge for being flame tested at Liverpool St the other night.............I finished well late because of it and would kill that bagpiper if I could, trouble is the driverless train boffins already have........ |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2011 7:53:24 GMT
If the signal can be held at danger, it's technically a semi-auto and cannot be passed under rule. If it's a true auto, then the stop and proceed rule applies. Not true, there are some automatic signals (labelled with an 'A' prefix rather than a cabin code) which can be held at danger for regulating purposes (station starters, obviously). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2011 11:31:54 GMT
Not true, there are some automatic signals (labelled with an 'A' prefix rather than a cabin code) which can be held at danger for regulating purposes (station starters, obviously). To the best of my knowledge auto signals are simple track circuits that clear if the section ahead is empty with no control from anywhere. Most times I’ve been asked to hold on a platform whether it be for regulating the service or an incident I’m faced by a clear station starter and it will be done by the LC over the radio as the "Held visual" in the cab is very unreliable. All Central signals or BMBs have a three letter abbreviation to denote their location (TCR, WHC, HOL, etc) followed by a four number ID. If it has an A before the number it’s an auto, if it don’t it’s a semi. As with any line with an auto at danger if I can’t find out from the LC why I’m being held after two minutes I can pass it under my own authority. Has never happened yet but EPP-THB is a dodgy area for radio signals. |
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Post by North End on Feb 15, 2011 11:33:50 GMT
Not true, there are some automatic signals (labelled with an 'A' prefix rather than a cabin code) which can be held at danger for regulating purposes (station starters, obviously). To the best of my knowledge auto signals are simple track circuits that clear if the section ahead is empty with no control from anywhere. Most times I’ve been asked to hold on a platform whether it be for regulating the service or an incident I’m faced by a clear station starter and it will be done by the LC over the radio as the "Held visual" in the cab is very unreliable. All Central signals or BMBs have a three letter abbreviation to denote their location (TCR, WHC, HOL, etc) followed by a four number ID. If it has an A before the number it’s an auto, if it don’t it’s a semi. As with any line with an auto at danger if I can’t find out from the LC why I’m being held after two minutes I can pass it under my own authority. Has never happened yet but EPP-THB is a dodgy area for radio signals. There's a few automatic starting signals on the Northern Line which the Signal Operator can maintain at danger. Euston CX s/b, Camden Town n/b, London Bridge both roads if I recall correctly. The facility is frequently used to regulate the service. |
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 15, 2011 14:07:52 GMT
To the best of my knowledge auto signals are simple track circuits that clear if the section ahead is empty with no control from anywhere. Most times I’ve been asked to hold on a platform whether it be for regulating the service or an incident I’m faced by a clear station starter and it will be done by the LC over the radio as the "Held visual" in the cab is very unreliable. All Central signals or BMBs have a three letter abbreviation to denote their location (TCR, WHC, HOL, etc) followed by a four number ID. If it has an A before the number it’s an auto, if it don’t it’s a semi. As with any line with an auto at danger if I can’t find out from the LC why I’m being held after two minutes I can pass it under my own authority. Has never happened yet but EPP-THB is a dodgy area for radio signals. There's a few automatic starting signals on the Northern Line which the Signal Operator can maintain at danger. Euston CX s/b, Camden Town n/b, London Bridge both roads if I recall correctly. The facility is frequently used to regulate the service. From memory the Bakerloo line signalman at Picc Circus was able to hold the Picc line platform starters (an auto and a semi-auto, floodgate FPX signal in A mode) in the days when it was required to hold last trains for a connection. I can't recall if the facility was retained following resignalling and centralisation of Bakerloo signalling to Baker Street, AFAIK last trains have not been routinely held to guarantee a connection for many years. |
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Post by JR 15secs on Feb 15, 2011 16:48:32 GMT
There's a few automatic starting signals on the Northern Line which the Signal Operator can maintain at danger. Euston CX s/b, Camden Town n/b, London Bridge both roads if I recall correctly. The facility is frequently used to regulate the service. From memory the Bakerloo line signalman at Picc Circus was able to hold the Picc line platform starters (an auto and a semi-auto, floodgate FPX signal in A mode) in the days when it was required to hold last trains for a connection. I can't recall if the facility was retained following resignalling and centralisation of Bakerloo signalling to Baker Street, AFAIK last trains have not been routinely held to guarantee a connection for many years. IIRC these were the Z signals levers 14/15. |
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Post by mrfs42 on Feb 15, 2011 19:48:40 GMT
IIRC these were the Z signals levers 14/15. Indeedy - BPZ, no less: a Bakerloo Code on another line! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 7:31:37 GMT
AFAIK last trains have not been routinely held to guarantee a connection for many years. Last train connections are managed by station staff (in conjunction with the controller) - many last trains have booked connections with other lines and, as there is a requirement for the last train to be "lamped out" station staff will simply hold trains to ensure passengers can make connections. Of course if the service on one line is severely disrupted, the decision may be made not to maintain the connection in order to avoid knock-on delays to other lines. |
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