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Post by alex92ts on Dec 26, 2010 20:00:24 GMT
So, I've recently bought the London Railway Atlas (Second Edition) by Joe Brown, and its definitely a fascinating book. One thing I can't work out though. On the Central Line Epping branch, it has a paragraph saying: "The Central Line from Stratford to Loughton was opened by the Eastern Counties Railway (later absorbed by the Great Eastern Railway) in 1856. GER then opened the extension to Epping (and Ongar) in 1865. Most passenger services were transferred to LU in stages between 1947-1949. Freight remained until 1966. And some early morning main line passenger services to Epping continued until 1970. The physical link between Leyton and Stratford was dismantled in 1972." Does anyone know any more info about the sentence in bold? This is the first time I have heard of this. Maybe someone can shed some light on this. Thanks  |
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 26, 2010 20:14:22 GMT
These were early morning 'workers' services that were withdrawn on 31st. May 19711970. Latterly they were operated by DMU's. They terminated at Stratford on weekdays and Liverpool Street on Weekends.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 22:43:16 GMT
On weekdays (i.e. Mon-Sat) c.1960 there were two trains (02.26 and 03.51) from Stratford to Epping. The 02.26 was a "staff", the 03.51 "staff" (to Epping) and "for passengers holding tickets to Loughton only". The return workings ex-Epping were 03.11 and 04.37 ex-Epping to Stratford. Both were "staff".
On Sundays there were two trains 04.15 and 04.45 both empty from Stratford to Epping. These formed 05.06 and 05.36 ex-Epping to Liverpool Street, the first being "for staff and passengers holding tickets", the second "staff".
These returned from Liverpool Street at 06.20 and 06.56, the first being "for staff and passengers holding tickets", the second for "staff".
These then returned empty from Epping at 07.21 and 07.52, both to Stratford.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 26, 2010 23:17:41 GMT
I have contributed in the past to threads about tripcock-fitted J15s and other locos and DMMUs. I can't recall now if the diesel locos were Class 15 or 16. There were I also seem to remember advertised BR excursions from Epping. However, I am happy to be corrected. Also this page may be of interest: signalbox.org/gallery/e/leyton.htmThere used to be (I thought two) sisings south of Newbury Park. Wiki says: The last vestige of the former line was a turn-back siding south of the station, used by main-line freight trains travelling around the loop from Woodford until 1965, and by Underground engineering trains until 1992 when it was finally abandoned It was in the middle ground:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Newbury_Park_portals.JPGwww.abandonedstations.org.uk/Newbury_Park.html |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 23:21:01 GMT
I have contributed in the past to threads about tripcock-fitted J15s and other locos and DMMUs. I can't recall now if the diesel locos were Class 15 or 16. There were I also seem to remember advertised BR excursions from Epping. However, I am happy to be corrected. Also this page may be of interest: signalbox.org/gallery/e/leyton.htmThere used to be (I thought two) sisings south of Newbury Park. Wiki says: "The last vestige of the former line was a turn-back siding south of the station, used by main-line freight trains travelling around the loop from Woodford until 1965, and by Underground engineering trains until 1992 when it was finally abandoned". They were in the middle ground: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Newbury_Park_portals.JPGPutting [ url] and [ /url] tags helps! (without the space in the brackets of course) |
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Oracle
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Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Dec 26, 2010 23:32:37 GMT
Thanks to the Nintendo Generation! My son is nearly 14 and types with both hands, does marvels with software and says he knows much more than his dad does! Yours truly first used a computer in 1970 and really should know better about links. On another Forum, Roger said
I was a booking clerk at Woodford and used to get to work before my
booking on time(madness I know but I have grown up since!!)A DMU used
to arrive at around 5am and a group of postmen used to say "would you
be good enough to open early and issue me with a cheapday return" with
a few expletives thrown in to be sure that I had got the message!
Then there were the Sunday excursions which were diesel hauled and ran
to Loughton where the loco could run round. My father was station
foreman at Buckhurst Hill and was asked by a Divisional Inspector
(sorry Dave) to secure the catch points in case the excursion rolled
back and derailed. My father explained to the D.I. that was what they
were intended for as there was a standard stock follwing to take
passengers onward to Epping. No expense spared in those days.
Also the link to BR at Leyton remained officially open for freight traffic until 3/8/71, and the connection was severed on 29/10/72. Finally, I managed to locate the newsletter that I previously referred-to in past postings. Go to page 2: www.theydon.org.uk/lhs/Downloads/LHS%20News%20178.pdfThis seems to confirm that both Classes 15 and 16 were used, and also the D5500-series Class 31. However I defer to experts, and also whether these were Hornsey, Stratford or Bow locos. The DMMUs would it seems have been Class 125 Derby units, as used on the Lea Valley route, with R-R engines and transmissions. |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 26, 2010 23:57:48 GMT
The 125s were hydraulic transmission though, so isn't that DHMUs?
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Dec 27, 2010 9:02:39 GMT
Yes, indeed! :)Diesel-Hydraulic Mechanical Units: similar to the 4-car Class 127 that were once used on the Bed-Pan. I have a feeling that R-R used a transmission under licence from General Motors. Fluidrive of Hounslow and Bracknell also built fluid flywheels so may have supplied.
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 27, 2010 9:59:35 GMT
Thanks for that Oracle, its got me thinking what a marvelous subject for a layout. Steam and diesel hauled passenger and freight with DMU's and tube stock all sharing the same tracks. I would like to know what carriage stock was used on those excursions, there was plenty of 4 and 6 wheel stock stored at Stratford back then (but highly unlikely as it was all for scrap).
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
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Post by Oracle on Dec 27, 2010 10:43:08 GMT
Note the F5 at Woodford. It seems that N7s were also used on the Epping branch post-war.
Does this suggest that bogie stock was used in the 1960s:
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 27, 2010 11:06:00 GMT
Yes, bogie stock was used after the line was electrified. Though I noticed some Gresley articulated stock in some of the photographs. The N7's IIRC never worked on the branch north of Loughton, as far as I am aware only F5's and J15's worked to Ongar, as these were the two lightest locomotives on the roster it suggests a weak underbridge somewhere on the branch, as Type 2 diesels operated as far as Loughton it must have been between there and Ongar.
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
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Post by Oracle on Dec 27, 2010 11:25:05 GMT
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Post by bassmike on Dec 27, 2010 16:05:39 GMT
ISTR that many dmu's had Loughton/Epping etc: on their blinds for many years after the link to ER was severed
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2010 16:27:10 GMT
Thanks for this everyone. Brings back memories. I can well remember the Loughton Junction and always nagged my dear old Grandad hoping to see some blue sided behemoth with white double arrows and a yellow front at Leyton northbound as we went south on a 62TS. Alas, this was not to be!
I do however recall the DMU in the early mornings passing my bedroom window near Roding Valley station up until the age of 5 or 6 which would tie in with the info above.
Does anybody have photographs of DMUs from this era at either Roding Valley or Woodford?
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Post by ruislip on Dec 27, 2010 18:45:16 GMT
I remember seeing these services in some "Underground Guide"s in my collection--under first train times for the Central Line.
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
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Post by neilw on Dec 28, 2010 13:21:59 GMT
I have an Underground Guide (timetable) for 1966 which shows the ones which passengers can use, and a WTT from 1964 showing them all, as Reganorak correctly describes. I can also remember the sounds of the nightly coal train shunting at Newbury Park, waking me up as a kid with progressive clank clank clank of the wagons. Not that listening to trains was a problem, obviously!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2010 14:13:14 GMT
Those planning to model the last few years of BR operation on the Ongar line may wish to be aware that Hornby are planning to produce Gresley suburban stock in OO scale. If they are doing the correct brake vehicle then there is an easy(ish) conversion to be done for the push-pull sets that ran on the line with the F5s at the end.
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 28, 2010 15:16:18 GMT
Those planning to model the last few years of BR operation on the Ongar line may wish to be aware that Hornby are planning to produce Gresley suburban stock in OO scale. If they are doing the correct brake vehicle then there is an easy(ish) conversion to be done for the push-pull sets that ran on the line with the F5s at the end. Would be nice if they made an F5 to go with them. (And a J15, and an N7). |
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Post by d7666 on Jan 9, 2011 23:45:36 GMT
AFAIK some 15s were tripcock fitted and no 16s were.
I'd stand to be corrected on that though.
--
Nick
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Post by dazzmcguinness on Jan 27, 2011 10:12:59 GMT
Does anyone know whether it's still possible to go from Ongar to Epping on the old rails? I would imagine it'd be a lovely journey, even with the development around the area.
'McGuinness
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Post by trc666 on Jan 27, 2011 11:30:24 GMT
Not quite to Epping, but the Epping Ongar Railway goes as far as Coopersale Halt (although there isn't a station there), which is the boundary with London Underground.
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 27, 2011 14:34:35 GMT
For those who are interested there was an extension beyond Ongar that received the necessary permissions but was never built. This was the Central Essex Light Railway. The proposed route was for the line to leave Ongar at the eastern end of the station and then turn north to follow the Roding Valley to Dunmow and beyond. Some one did build a layout on the premise that the line had been built, if it had I wonder how far the Central Line would have spread?
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Post by alex92ts on Jan 27, 2011 16:29:07 GMT
For those who are interested there was an extension beyond Ongar that received the necessary permissions but was never built. This was the Central Essex Light Railway. The proposed route was for the line to leave Ongar at the eastern end of the station and then turn north to follow the Roding Valley to Dunmow and beyond. Some one did build a layout on the premise that the line had been built, if it had I wonder how far the Central Line would have spread? Thanks for the info. I don't think I knew that, although I may of heard of it. I remember as a kid, I used to think the line used to carry on from Ongar, but the tunnel was filled in. Looking at it now, I can see where I was coming from, even though there is no tunnel or anything railway related west of Ongar. |
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 27, 2011 17:07:35 GMT
The Great Eastern built several of their country terminals as 'through' stations. Southminster is another example, there was also an intention to extend that line to Bradwell.
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