Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282 
|
Post by Ben on Mar 31, 2009 3:56:33 GMT
Just been looking at this fascinating document again. Can anyone shed any light on the extremely bizzare numbering of the Jubilee Line Extension? Even the unbuilt bits of the underground follow a pattern, but the JLE just seems like they picked numbers out of a hat! Is there any method to this? Also, how come the line between Olympia and Latimer Road is missing? Afterall, dispite its age, its still within the time frame of the document. Likewise the Denham Extension. Many thanks for any answers! Oh, btw, is there a newer version yet? www.cryptart.com/tube/codemap.pdf |
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 1, 2009 22:39:58 GMT
Hmm. Jubilee.
Ex- Metropolitan, Ex - Bakerloo would explain the B0xx numbers - look at Baker St. where the Met. and Jubilee are in very close numerical proximity. F0xx is obviously Fleet Line and the JLE largely follows a pattern matching the order in which the line was opened - with the exception of West Ham - Canning Town.
I strongly suspect this map is perhaps an extended private joke - there are too many 'what ifs' to be plausible, modified by accurate historical data - East London numbered in the Met series, accurate correction for Canada Water.
Something does not quite ring true about this map - there are curious anomalies - East London Joint Committee, M&MDJC are missing, Monument has no reference. I can't honestly believe that this has been worked up from such a mixed bag of sources and perpetuated - 'Cromwell Curve' is another oddity.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,100
|
Post by Tom on Apr 1, 2009 22:44:43 GMT
The map is no joke - I've seen copies of it used at work, and the CAD system is built arount BRS codes.
There is also a large spec for it (which I have somewhere) that lists all sorts of LT buildings not part of the Underground with a code.
|
|
slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by slugabed on Apr 1, 2009 23:47:22 GMT
It IS a peculiar document,though.
The Met beyond Amersham (service ceased 1961) is shown as a dotted line,but the South Acton shuttle (ceased 1959) does not appear,though it IS in the disused stations box.
Talking of which,where was the disused Northern station at "Melton St" (W006)?
And was there REALLY ever to be a North Curve at Park Jct.?
And why is the Picc to Aldwych marked as disused,but the Jubilee to Charing X (and beyond) as still in use?
I may be wrong,but wasn't the intermediate station on the Camberwell extension to be called Walworth Gate,and be further North than Albany Rd (at least,that's what my old A to Z shows).
And I'm surprised there's no mention of Harringey St.Ann's,where there is at least a shaft...
What I'm trying to see is a consistancy as to what is there and what isn't.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Apr 2, 2009 4:57:29 GMT
The order the JLE opened....didnt think of that one MRFS!
Even that doesnt cover it though;
For those who dont wish to download the file, the section in question goes from stratford:
C091
J004
D039
J027
J003
J006
J005
J008
J007
J012
J009
J014
J011
J016
N135
J018
J013
J022
N115
J024
D101
J026
The sections with other prefexes are fair enough, but what I dont understand is why the jubilee bits are not sequential, and the especialy odd use of J027: Out of sequence and an odd number. The even numbers from J006 seem correct, but the odd numbers seem like someone forgot a section.
At a guess for some of the oddities though, the jubilee to CX is still used by revenue trains for reversing, whilst Aldwych isnt atall. The north curve at Park Jnct. had the earth works completed pre LT, but never had track laid. Perhaps LT would have finished it; it would have given a quick way to turn 'wrong way' trains for formation at Wellington, or even Edgware/Aldenham.
In the area of St. Ann's, the BRS Macro code P030 is missing (Macro codes seem to cover long sections, I'm assuming they can be understood as base references just in this scenario, despite what they might actually mean otherwise). Its possible that any station could have been acccomodated in there.
Melton Street has been commented previously to be the former Northern Line station at Euston, IIRC.
For South Acton, both D240 and D200 have enough space in them. Tom, do you know where old copies or references would be kept? Would be interesting to see if any codes were assigned for the track to South Acton, the station at St. Ann's, Olympia - Latimer Road and such.
Also, what hapens when future projects are completed, like the Croxley Rail Link? I see theres a pleasant gap for M050...
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 2, 2009 8:09:09 GMT
Talking of which,where was the disused Northern station at "Melton St" (W006)? Go to the highest number platforms at Euston (upstairs) - head left as you enter the station; you will end up in a large corridor that debouches into a tiny car park; go through the door into the car park and a very recognisable oxblood terracotta station is in front of you over the road. AI took me there on a date.  The finest mango lassis I have ever consumed is also produced in a super little restaurant along Melton St. And was there REALLY ever to be a North Curve at Park Jct.? The section East Finchley - Archway is also one of the oddities, as the upstairs and downstairs tracks share the same line. I've also got the 1939 opening notice for Park Junction next to me as I'm currently digitising the diagram. There wasn't a north curve at Park Junction, however (at opening) entry into Highgate Wood Sidings was via the same set of points that gave access to the top end of Highgate Depot fan. Not all the points were commissioned at the opening of Park Junction - I have seen a later drawing which separates the HWS/HD access and completes the HWS fan of sidings from the Cranley Gardens end. I suspect what looks like the North Curve is an artifact of the access that existed in 1939. I may be wrong,but wasn't the intermediate station on the Camberwell extension to be called Walworth Gate,and be further North than Albany Rd (at least,that's what my old A to Z shows). I think there were several iterations of intermediate plans - Camberwell Gate station (in one version) was to be opposite where Westmoreland Road meets the Walworth Road (which *is* further north than Albany Road). What I'm trying to see is a consistancy as to what is there and what isn't. Same here. ;D |
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,230
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 2, 2009 19:26:45 GMT
Go to the highest number platforms at Euston (upstairs) - head left as you enter the station; you will end up in a large corridor that debouches into a tiny car park; go through the door into the car park and a very recognisable oxblood terracotta station is in front of you over the road. AI took me there on a date. The finest mango lassis I have ever consumed is also produced in a super little restaurant along Melton St. Walk out of the station, past the old station and take the next left and there's a rather nice pub to while your time in waiting for Virgin to tell you which platform to run to! Back on topic, what is this map FOR? |
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,100
|
Post by Tom on Apr 2, 2009 21:23:29 GMT
The order the JLE opened....didnt think of that one MRFS! Even that doesnt cover it though; For those who dont wish to download the file, the section in question goes from stratford: C091 J004 D039 J027 J003 J006 J005 J008 J007 J012 J009 J014 J011 J016 N135 J018 J013 J022 N115 J024 D101 J026 The sections with other prefexes are fair enough, but what I dont understand is why the jubilee bits are not sequential, and the especialy odd use of J027: Out of sequence and an odd number. The even numbers from J006 seem correct, but the odd numbers seem like someone forgot a section. The spec also has alternative codes (and preferred codes) for some locations. North Greenwich ISTR also has the code F026 allocated to it! |
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 2, 2009 21:30:45 GMT
Wasn't North Greenwich going to be in some iteration of the Fleet Line - could that be why there's an F0xx code?
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Apr 2, 2009 23:40:29 GMT
By the looks of it, the River Line had a station at exactly the same spot at North Greenwich, Canary Wharf was to the south though of the current station. From Baker Street however, the F codes are increasing Eastbound. For NG station to be F026 it'd have to be yet another clumsy sequence, never minding the fact that its an even number. The whole thing is strange!
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Apr 3, 2009 16:50:03 GMT
You all seem to have missed a question I'm dying to know the answer to as well... |
|
|
|
Post by stanmorek on Apr 3, 2009 17:56:45 GMT
Essentially a geographical referencing system with area codes. For instance the generic platform asset number SP1 could be referenced to a unique station e.g. N133/SP1 at Bank or M177/SP1 Ladbroke Grove.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Apr 4, 2009 1:56:51 GMT
Ok fair enough.
Mind you, looking at the map again, it tallies up with some markings on the sleepers at Barking!!
Just beyond the normal stopping point on the Westbound (platform 6), D031 and D032 can clearly be seen sprayed on the sleepers.
|
|
|
|
Post by stanmorek on Apr 4, 2009 10:33:07 GMT
It can be confusing that asset numbers seen on bridge ID plates on the District line are Dxx and the Northern Edgware branch are Nxx.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Apr 5, 2009 2:57:47 GMT
Does anyone else think that the maps are clearer than the current public tube maps? Far less vertexes and they have even distortion of the stations. Was mucking about with an old version (8) a couple of days ago; very easy to follow.
|
|
|
|
Post by flippyff on May 7, 2009 20:28:24 GMT
The order the JLE opened....didnt think of that one MRFS! <snip> At a guess for some of the oddities though, the jubilee to CX is still used by revenue trains for reversing, whilst Aldwych isnt atall. The north curve at Park Jnct. had the earth works completed pre LT, but never had track laid. Perhaps LT would have finished it; it would have given a quick way to turn 'wrong way' trains for formation at Wellington, or even Edgware/Aldenham. <snip> Sorry, newbie question..... Did/does the Jubilee really extend beyond Charing Cross to(wards) Aldwych? TIA, Simon |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2009 22:53:25 GMT
Yes, a third of a mile beyond the end of the platforms at Charing Cross - to the western point of the Aldwych 'delta'.
Welcome, by the way!
|
|
The finest mango lassis I have ever consumed is also produced in a super little restaurant along Melton St.
